Barbara Fleißner (presenter): Roman Grinberg, the Klezmer Swing Quartet – it’s great having you here, thank you so much.
Dear speakers, presidents, excellencies, honoured members of parliaments, esteemed members of the Jewish communities, distinguished guests! Welcome to Vienna, welcome to the Austrian Parliament and welcome to a very important conference that is going to start tomorrow. "Never again? Democracy cannot tolerate Antisemitism”: The aim of this conference is to build a parliamentary alliance against rising antisemitism worldwide and to work together to uphold justice, equality and our democratic values.
So, thank you for being here and being part of that! My name is Barbara Fleißner. I’m going to guide you through this evening, the evening before the conference. Therefore, I’d like to introduce you to this evening’s host, the conference host: Please welcome the President of the National Council, Wolfgang Sobotka!
Welcoming speeches
Wolfgang Sobotka (President of the National Council, Austria): Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests, dear musicians! I’m very pleased to welcome you all at the Austrian Parliament today – parliamentarians from more than 20 countries, representatives of Jewish communities across Europe, rabbis, experts. I’m especially pleased to greet the Speaker of the Israeli Knesset, Amir Ohana; the Speaker of the Canadian House of Commons, Gregory Fergus; the President of the Belgian Chamber of Representatives, Peter De Roover, the President of the European Jewish Congress, Ariel Muzicant, the President of the Jewish Community of Vienna, Oskar Deutsch, and the President of the Conference of European Rabbis, Rabbi Pinchas Goldschmidt.
Despite the opening sessions in the parliamentary year in so many countries, you came to Vienna. I’m aware of how sensitive it is to leave the house at the beginning of the parliamentary year. For that, I want to convey my deep gratitude.
What was the reason for convening this conference? In a few weeks, we will mark the first anniversary of the brutal attack by Hamas terrorists as well as ordinary Palestinians on peace-loving Israeli citizens in the kibbutzim near the Gaza border and on young boys and girls celebrating at a music festival. This terror attack surely took a long time to be planned; Israel’s reaction was anticipated and expected. Via social media, the images of horror made their way across the globe.
Since that fateful day, antisemitism has been unleashed worldwide – be it at universities, on the streets or online. For the first time since the Shoah, the worst crime against humans in history, Jewish communities in Europe are once again living in fear – the fear of rejection, the fear of verbal assaults and the fear of physical attacks and terror. – This is the first reason why we convene this conference.
The second reason is that Jewish communities usually only have the security forces in their own countries as their points of contact. Our hope is for parliamentarians and parliaments to engage as points of contact for Jewish communities and their representatives.
Thirdly, it is imperative to strengthen the European position against the terrorist organization Hamas, to question the role of UNRWA, to gain clarity regarding the situation in Israel and the Middle East, and to assess the influence it has in Europe. We must take care not to allow that cause and effect are being confused. For years, Israel has been living under a barrage of rockets from the south and the north. I saw this at close range on my numerous visits to Israel. With my own eyes, I saw burning kites unleashed over Sderot; via binoculars I was able to detect the rocket launchers of Hezbollah.
Despite all this, the residents of the kibbutzim along the border of Gaza firmly believed that sustainable peace with Palestinians was imperative and within reach, and that efforts, pursuing the Abraham Accords, were being made. During this time, Hamas and Hezbollah were financed by Iran, a country that has been under sanctions for 40 years, in order to expand their terrorist activities, train their terror units and arm them to the teeth.
When rocket launchers are placed underneath hospitals and schools, next to mosques and in family homes, when a tunnel system is built, by far longer than the Vienna subway system, then one can only imagine how much effort was put in their desire to destroy Israel. Hamas quite explicitly denies Israel’s right to exist with their declaration "From the River to the Sea!”, rooted in their founding charter.
One can criticize the Netanyahu government – I myself do it on some issues –, but denouncing Israel as an apartheid state or defining it as post-colonial politics shows a very evident antisemitic and anti-Israeli stance, operating with the same depictions as they have been portrayed for centuries: descriptions such as the Jew – and by extension Israel – is to blame and must be eliminated; or the claim that Israel treats Palestinians no differently than the Nazis treated the Jews; or: Jews are child killers as in the time of Herod.
Social media have been hijacked by anti-Israeli opinions that influence the masses. Unfortunately, by now even the so-called quality media tend to report in a biased manner. For example, when they report on the Israeli attack on the Al-Shifa Hospital or a school in Gaza City, they show images of dead children. But hardly a word is mentioned that, like Hamas, using their own civilian population, women and children, as living shields is a war crime. Not a word is mentioned that placing ammunition in humanitarian and public institutions is a war crime. The report in "Weltjournal” by the Austrian Broadcasting Corporation ORF on 4th September was a subtle biased report, the vicious attack on 7th October mentioned only occasionally.
A sheer number of journalists report on the situation in the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Israel. Where are all these reporters when it comes to the starving children of Yemen, enduring unspeakable suffering since the outbreak of the civil war in 2015? Where are the reports on the war in Sudan, where hundreds of people are dying daily?
Between 2015 and 2023, Israel was sentenced 154 times by the United Nations, while all other countries combined received 75 sentences in the same period. While the UNHCR, the United Nations Refugee Agency, with some 30,000 employees takes care of 70 million refugees worldwide, the UNRWA, another UN organization, employs between 27,000 and 30,000 people, caring for 2.5 million refugees, while permitting the use of textbooks with antisemitic content in schools in the Gaza Strip.
For years, we in Europe have been aware of right-wing antisemitism. Strongly influenced by a post-modern view on history, we now also recognize a strong left-wing antisemitism and anti-Zionism. Lastly, we have imported a veritable Islamic antisemitism through the influx of refugees and labour migration, reflecting the deeply entrenched antisemitism in their countries of origin. Demonstrations with chants of "From the River to the Sea”, attacks on Jewish students on university campuses and attempted terror attacks on Jewish institutions make it clear: What happens in Israel cannot be viewed in isolation but must be recognized for its strong impact on significant parts of Europe.
The Austrian Parliament's commitment to combat antisemitism is not only due to our historic responsibility, but also because we recognize that antisemitism expresses an anti-democratic stance and therefore poses a threat to our liberal democracy.
All these thoughts and facts lead to this day, to this conference: to recognize the importance of connecting Jewish communities in Europe with parliamentarians as both feel the impact of these threats. Together we should address these issues. Together we should openly discuss, debate, and analyse these topics. Together we maybe find common ground, engage in dialogues with the Muslim communities, holding them to a clear position in the fight against antisemitism.
In this sense, I wish you a pleasant evening; I wish you fruitful discussions. I hope you will enjoy the conference tomorrow. I appreciate your coming; I am so grateful that, in this time, you were able to come to Austria.
President Ohana, Greg Fergus from Canada: We must see the long distances they have travelled, as well as our parliamentary representatives of Belgium, Hungary, and Poland. Many thanks for your coming; it’s a great pleasure and a great honour for the Austrian Parliament.
Barbara Fleißner: Thank you, Mr. Sobotka.
We live in crucial times, as Mr. Sobotka said. The situation for Jewish people all around the world is alarming. We do not need speeches, we need action: That is what Ariel Muzicant said a few months ago, I remember. It’s really a pleasure having him here tonight. So, please welcome the President of the European Jewish Congress, Ariel Muzicant.
Ariel Muzicant (President of the European Jewish Congress, Austria): Ladies and gentlemen, dear friends, specifically our friends who got up at 2 o’clock in the morning to be here with us! It’s really great to have you here.
Wolfgang, what can I say after this speech, right? There is not much left. Let me really tell you that this is his doing, his initiative. We are extremely thankful for all you did, not just for the Jewish people of Austria, but what you did in the last years and years and years to fight antisemitism, to build Europe and to represent Austria in the way you did. I must say, again and again, how much we are going to miss you after this coming election.
I had the privilege to accompany you on your visit to Israel just after 7th October. We were in Sderot; we were in the kibbutzim; we were at the place where the festival took place. We saw it with our own eyes, again and again, with journalists, with community members, with my colleagues from the European Jewish Congress. We had four trips immediately after 7th October. It is so difficult to express all these feelings we had and all these terrible thoughts we still have, considering that a hundred and more hostages are still there, thinking of the families of the victims and all that.
Then we watch Austrian television, as you mentioned, "Weltjournal”, on 4th September, and see a biased film. We watch BBC and see a series of biased reports. We read the news today and have Mr. Volker Türk from Austria, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, lashing out at Israel: at Israel’s terrible behaviour in the West Bank. What Mr. Türk did not mention, and what nobody hears and nobody knows, is that in these 11 months there were 4,973 terror attacks in the West Bank, with 30 Israelis killed. This is not worth even a side note in the news. So, how does the European Jewry feel in this situation?
Last week, there was a football game in the Nations League where Belgium was supposed to play Israel, but they couldn’t have it in Belgium. They had to go to Hungary because the Belgian police – or whatever – was not able to guarantee the security of the game. I mean, where are we? We are in Europe. A football game between Belgium and Israel cannot take place in Belgium.
These are two examples, three examples; I could go on and on and on.
What I want to say with all this is that there are 1.5 million Jews left; and I say left in Europe. They are proud Jews today; they live Jewish lives. We have 42 members of the European Jewish Congress; I’m very proud that so many of my Presidents made the effort to come. I look around and see 12 communities represented by their leaders to show how much this problem hurts us; how much the European Jewry today is caught between – I say it in German – Pest und Cholera. Pest is the extreme right, Cholera is the extreme left; then we have the Islamic radicals. So it’s Pest, Cholera and something else.
Whatever: the Jews are the victims. So, yes, Wolfgang, this is a major issue. Twelve years ago we started an initiative to convince the 28 European countries to foster security. Today, everybody understands; every member of the EU is helping to secure the Jewish communities. There is no country in Europe where the government, the police, the law enforcement agencies and so on and so forth don’t cooperate with the Jewish communities to make sure that the Jews are protected. Again, Austria was a role model for this; I’m really thankful for this. You were then Minister of the Interior and had other functions. Austria was really one of the first countries where they decided to bear the security costs of the Jewish communities.
But the situation has worsened. There are older people, there are sick people, there are people who live alone, who are afraid to go out to the streets, who are afraid to go to a synagogue, who are afraid to send their children to Jewish schools, who are afraid to attend Jewish events. They are afraid in Belgium. My colleague, the President, told me: Ari, you are wearing a kippah and you are wearing this sign. If you did this in Brussels, you wouldn’t survive.
It’s not just Brussels: it’s Ireland; it's Slovenia; it’s Spain; it’s many countries in Europe where being a proud Jew, showing it, being a Zionist, and standing with Israel is something for which you have to fear for your life.
Amir, you came today, I don’t know if you have seen what the city looks like: It’s a fortress. There is police at every second house, and this and that. Why did we get here? What is happening with this world?
So, I really hope that such conferences will be the ignition spark to do something else: to understand that the next step has to be supporting the Jewish communities in Europe so that we foster Jewish life. Again, Austria is doing it, but we have to have this in every single country.
Katharina, you passed this as a resolution of the European Commission in 2021, correct? But it is not implemented yet. We need this, therefore we have the parliamentarians here. We need you to understand: If you want to maintain Jewish life in Europe, it is up to us and you together to do something about it. If not, in 30 years from now, more than half of the Jews of Europe will have left. At the moment I don’t know where they will go, but they will have left.
Sorry, my colleague from Canada: Toronto is no plan B anymore after what has been going on there; with all respect, I have family there. For us, it was Israel or Canada if we had to run. Today, I’m not sure what it is, but that’s another topic.
I would like to come to a last issue which I’m going to mention all over this conference: Antisemitism is a sickness of the antisemites. It has been here for 2,500 years. We have to do everything to fight it, but it’s not going to go away. What is making me more nervous than antisemitism today, is the forces in Europe which are now fighting for illiberal democracies, meaning to get rid of freedom of press, to get rid of democratic values, to get rid of women’s rights, LGBT rights, rights of every minority group, to destroy the constitutions we have, and to destroy the judiciary systems we have.
This is happening while we are looking at it. I will quote Michel Friedman, who was invited here but gave a very controversial speech, but I’m quoting him again: Liberty, freedom, and liberal democracy are like oxygen for the Jewish people. – If you take it away, we cannot live there anymore. If you take away the rights of all minorities, if you take away the artists, the NGOs and all these forces which make a democracy pluralistic, it’s the end for the Jewish people.
You don’t need antisemitism for that. It’s going to happen because of other things. I mean specifically the problems we are facing with the extreme right in certain countries and the extreme left in certain countries, who want to abolish our Europe as we know it today.
So, when we have the election in Austria in a few weeks, I’m one of those who openly says: If – God forbid! – this party comes into power, it will mean the abolishment of huge progress that this country has seen over the last 30 years. I was here when we had antisemitism in 75 to 80 per cent of the people; I was here when Austria declared itself the first victim of Hitler; and so on and so forth. But I also saw what Austria became after 1988. Today, it is one of the leading countries of freedom, humanity, understanding, and mutual respect.
If – God forbid! – this is lost: We saw what happened in Germany with AfD; tomorrow you will hear Yonathan tell you what’s happening in France. Josef Schuster is here, coming specifically early in the morning to tell you how terrible the prospect of having AfD in government is for him and the Jewish community of Germany. I think Ossi after me will give you his views on Austria.
For us, fighting antisemitism also means fighting for a liberal, open, humanitarian, and respectful Europe. If we lose that, then we have lost the possibility to live here as Jews.– Thank you very much.
Barbara Fleißner: Thank you, Mr. Muzicant.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the president of the Jewish Community of Vienna, Oskar Deutsch. – Welcome!
Oskar Deutsch (President of the Jewish Community of Vienna, Austria): Speaker of the Knesset Amir Ohana, President of the Austrian Parliament Wolfgang Sobotka, Kvod ha-Rabbanim, presidents of Jewish communities in Europe, ladies and gentlemen! This conference and the gathering of parliamentarians and presidents of Jewish communities in Europe, hosted in the Austrian Parliament by President Wolfgang Sobotka, should be a celebratory event full of joy – but it is not.
It’s impossible to be joyful in the face of the repeated focus of yet another conference on the ever-growing and since October last year even exploding antisemitic virus, an explosion of almost 500 per cent of reported antisemitic incidents in Austria alone, as in the worldwide aftermaths of the still unimaginable horrors of the terror attack of 7th October, the pogrom, including the burning of a cemetery hall here in Austria, physical attacks on Jewish kids on their ways to school, bullying in classrooms, antisemitic sprayings on Jewish stores, and massive threats online and offline.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Don’t even make me get started about the insecurity and fear of community members who are seriously thinking about leaving Europe, hiding their Stars of David, not coming to the synagogue anymore for the first time after the Shoah. None of this is portrayed by the statistics in the antisemitism reports.
But this is not an Austrian phenomenon. I am almost ashamed to once again raise this issue, especially in front of you, the presidents of other Jewish communities in Europe, who are facing even more horrifying numbers of antisemitic incidents, hatred, and radical political parties in their own countries. I am sickened, but I will never be tired to address this issue openly.
Despite all the challenges, obey the fundamental requirements of any Jewish community: the requirements to stay optimistic no matter what, to fight for what we rebuilt after the Shoah, the gift of Jewish life, culture, and heritage once again in the midst of Europe’s society – our society –, in close ties and support with the Jewish state, with Israel.
But this gift, this wonder of modern Europe with its inseparable Jewish heritage and life, is once again – and it honestly pains to say this – under existential threat. This gift is being attacked from too many sides. Even as we speak, antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda is acted out in front of this very parliament as a direct reaction to this conference, comprised of a strange mix of convinced Islamist terror supporters and useful, mostly far-left idiots with historical amnesia. Never has the threat against Jewish life been so imminent, so shockingly open and accepted such as now, be it from the radical left or Islamists.
Let’s not forget the far right that is destabilizing our liberal democracies, the very democracies that brought Jews and non-Jews alike freedom and security. Instead of a wave of support, a wave of empathy and solidarity after the horrors of 7th October, we, the Jewish communities and Israel alike, are facing a growing wave of hate through many parts of society, its further escalation only being prevented by an incredible effort of heightened security, police protection, and military assistance.
What a shame, what a disgrace in Europe in the year 2024! But let’s not forget: Huge parts of society and politics, also in Austria, stand in solidarity with its Jewish communities and with Israel alike. I want to thank each and every one in Austria who is standing up against this oldest form of hate, standing up against antisemitism.
In Austria, the Freedom Party leads the polls. The FPÖ might become the largest parliamentary group in the Austrian Parliament at the end of this month. Please don’t get me wrong: I’m a strong supporter of and believing in democracy and the balancing between left, centre or right, but this FPÖ is not just any right-wing party. It is the political wing of the far-right extremist fraternities. This ideology is in direct continuation of the National Socialist narratives and mindset, deeply rooted in the party’s core and with an SS officer as its founding member, with racist and antisemitic rhetoric as part of its programme. We, the Jewish community, have a cordon sanitaire towards this party. It is important that all democratic forces, be it left, centre or right, never again let such a party get into government.
Amongst all these horrific developments is the threat from the right, but also the left and Islamists, including last week’s terror attack in Munich against the Israeli consulate and the NS documentation centre, with many hostages still in captivity, rockets flying daily by the hundreds against Israeli civilians, amongst all these shocking developments with the terror attack of 7th October that started it all, in the heads of many almost forgotten.
Amongst all of this are Israel and the Jewish people, once again almost solely blamed for the escalation, the war, and everything else, once again like in the darkest days of Europe.
I am therefore even more grateful to the host of this conference, Wolfgang Sobotka, a unique and outstanding politician who has opposed this antisemitic ideology from all sides, who has stood by the Jewish community in Austria, but also worldwide, who has stood by Israel like no one else, especially since 7th October, a once-in-a-lifetime ally of the Jewish people. We all cannot thank you enough. I don’t want to and cannot imagine what Jewish life in Austria and Europe will be without you as the President of the Austrian Parliament. What a Mensch you are, Wolfgang, kol ha-Kavod!
As mentioned at the beginning, one aspect of the job description of all representatives of Jewish communities in Europe is to be an optimist, despite all challenges. Let’s use this conference to pull together all resources, to join forces! Let’s keep on fighting against this virus that spreads over our European continent! Let’s fight for the only Jewish state! We owe it to our ancestors, our kids and grandkids, but especially the victims of 7th October. We cannot, we must not give up. We will never give up. Am Israel Chai!
Barbara Fleißner: Thank you, Mr. Deutsch.
In Judaism, music is not just music, but you all know that. You can hear it, you can feel it, and I talked to a dear colleague of mine. She is a singer, Timna Brauer, and she told me: Music is the connection between God and the people. It's a sense of identification; it’s about companions in fate.
We are now going to hear another song from the 18th century. It’s a cry for peace; that’s what we all need: "Volt Ikh Gehat Koyekh”.
(A piece of music follows.)
Roman Grinberg Klezmer Orchestra: Thank you so much.
Interviews with young spokespersons
Barbara Fleißner: 7th October 2023 was a vicious attack against innocent people, civilians in Israel, led to a painful war and has also caused a drastic shift for Jews worldwide. Indeed, it has risen antisemitism. What was until recently unacceptable, is now the norm in so many places. Especially university campuses have proven to be the breathing ground for much of this hate and antisemitism. We all know how important young voices are in every culture, every society, because they are the next generation; they are our future. Therefore, the voices of young Jewish people have become so much more important than ever because they often stand at the forefront in this battle against antisemitism.
Tonight, we have two powerful young Jewish voices here. It’s a real pleasure having them here. Before I ask them to join me on stage, I’d like to introduce them to you a little bit more because their CVs are impressive. Jessica Winkelbauer: She’s 23 years old, a student at the University of Vienna, currently working on her master’s degree in Immunobiology. She holds a bachelor’s degree in Molecular Biotechnology from the University of Applied Sciences Campus Vienna. Before that, she studied Biomedical Sciences in London. She spends a lot of time volunteering in the Jewish community. For the past eight years, she has been part of the dialogue programme Likrat; now she’s also training new members.
Dov Forman is 20 years old and the great-grandson of hundred-year-old Auschwitz survivor Lily Ebert. He’s the co-author of her best-selling memoir "Lily’s Promise”, an amazing book. He’s a prominent Holocaust educator with over two million followers on social media. He has spoken at prestigious institutions like Oxford and Cambridge and was recognized with the Points of Light Award by the Prime Minister of the UK for his work in Holocaust education and youth engagement. He’s currently a history student at the University College London and works in the UK Parliament for a former cabinet minister.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jessica Winkelbauer and Dov Foreman!
It’s so great having you here, thank you for your time!
Jessica Winkelbauer: Thank you!
Barbara Fleißner: Thank you for being here! Let’s talk about Judaism, let’s talk about Israel! You’re young active members of the Jewish community, so what does Judaism mean to you nowadays? What does Israel mean to you, Jessica?
Jessica Winkelbauer: First of all: Thank you so much for having me. I feel so honoured, standing in front of so many amazing people, thank you very much! As you mentioned, I’ve been working a lot with the project Likrat. Likrat is a dialogue project, in case a programme, and it’s originally from Switzerland. I’ve been a part of it for eight years. We go into educational institutions such as schools and universities, even the police, and we talk about Judaism. We talk about it eye to eye; I get all the different questions that people don’t really ask. So, I would say: Pre-seventh, my answer would have been that Israel is an emergency exit. It was mainly a refuge. But after the seventh, after this renewal of the generational trauma that we’ve been given, that we’ve lived through now, my relationship to Israel has strengthened.
I see it with my friends; I see with my family that we want to be a bigger part of the fight against antisemitism, of our rights, and maybe also get a little bit closer to the religion and find to be one people and so much closer to Israel than we might be.
Barbara Fleißner: Dov.
Dov Forman: Firstly, again thank you so much! It’s an inspiration to be here in the heart of democracy in Austria, in such a magnificent building, to stand here at a conference which, frankly, should not be needed, but the fact that it is needed and the fact that this has been put on: thank you! Thank you for doing this, it’s incredible to be here.
It’s a difficult question, but one which is so important: What does Judaism mean for me? I’m the great-grandson of a Holocaust survivor, an Auschwitz survivor, who grew up only a few hundred kilometres away, or not even, in Hungary. For me, Judaism – part of it has to do with persecution, preserving the story of the Holocaust, preserving my great-grandmother’s memory and ensuring that, when we say: Never again!, it’s not just a platitude, it’s not just something on a board, but we actually mean it. That means coming to conferences like this and actually implementing things, not just saying things with words. So, for me, Judaism has so often to do with trauma, with prejudice, but on the other side it’s also about community; it’s about hope; it’s about family.
My great-grandmother’s almost entire family was murdered in Auschwitz, but not once have I heard her complain. I only ever heard her, with a smile, saying beautiful things about Judaism, about life, and saying how we have to carry on. So, that’s also what Judaism means to me: an incredible community. That’s how we come through such hardships. For me, Israel, ultimately since October 7th, represents a destination, the only safe destination – despite things like October 7th for Jewish people in the world, because we know that despite saying: Never again!, that promise unfortunately, it seems across the western world, across countries where again, politicians have got up for decades and said that they won’t allow this to happen again, unfortunately that’s broken down. So, to me, Israel seems like a safe haven; the only safe haven for Jewish people.
Barbara Fleißner: You have been a university student since September 2023, shortly before the attack. Did you experience antisemitism on or off campus before the attack, and how has it changed over the last year?
Dov Forman: I did receive antisemitism before but not on the level like since October 7th. University is supposed to be and represent the best days of student life, of people’s life; at least that’s what I hear. For me, it has only represented the opposite of that. I don’t have one single non-Jewish friend from university. That’s because every single day I would wake up in the morning, I would look at our group chat from university and see antisemitism there since October 7th. I would then go to the train station on the way to university and see antisemitic spray paint. I would get to university and see people camping out at an encampment, calling for things like an Intifada until victory or calling for: From the River to the Sea! We both know what that means: a genocide against Jewish people in the state of Israel.
I mean, I once spoke to these people, I said: Do you know what an Intifada is? They said: No! I said: Let me tell you! The Intifada is like what we’ve seen on the streets of England when there’s a London Bridge terror attack, when innocent civilians are blown up for no reason other than the fact that they were there in that very moment. That’s what an Intifada is; that’s what these people don’t understand. I would then go to my lecture. This is what happened in a history lecture: I study history of Nazi Germany. I got there and the professor singled me out as the only Jew in the room. He started saying things about Israel and the Israeli government. So, that’s what university has been like for me since October 7th: a place where it’s actually been so difficult to go in that I didn’t even want to.
That’s not just my experience; that’s the one of many of my friends. I go to one of the most Jewish universities in London, if you want to call it like this. So, I think we’ve seen a breakdown of a place where, yes, university is a place for you to develop your political ideas and to kind of go into those grey areas, but what we’ve seen is antisemitism being allowed to prosper brazenly and openly without any repercussions. That is what’s so dangerous.
Barbara Fleißner: Jessica, you have been a student for five years now, I think. How did you experience that?
Jessica Winkelbauer: I believe that before the 7th of October it was always a difficult topic. I think we have the privilege – or maybe not so much the privilege – to decide if we want to tell people: Do I want to be in that fight now? Do I want to need to defend myself? I would say, before the 7th, I was more often neglecting that I didn’t want to be that person, I didn’t want to have to know everything about it and have to defend the allegations, but after the 7th of October, a lot of things happened. I want people to know that I’m Jewish.
I want to wear the Magen David because from the mindset of the Likrat, I want to be approachable and start a dialogue, because as you’ve mentioned, they don’t know what they’re talking about; they’re not hurt, we are. So, I believe from this experience from Likrat that education is so important. It’s so much more powerful than so many people think. Just talking about it and finding dialogue, even if it’s sometimes really hard, is crucial.
Dov Forman: I should come in there and actually say: What we’ve seen on university has fascinated me most, because we’ve seen a complete breakdown of the usual structures of antisemitism. It’s the horseshoe theory all again, where the extreme left and extreme right are coming and being antisemitic, but it’s those people who so often progressive Jews on campus marched alongside and stood alongside in their battles, whether that was Black Lives Matter or with the LGBT, whatever it might be. Jewish students stood alongside these people for so many years and this is the way that they repaid them ,which was to go out and to be antisemitic openly. And you know, you can’t just switch off your Jewishness, these people know that you’re Jewish. You can take off your kippah –I would never do that because my great-grandmother’s family were murdered in Auschwitz for me to have the right to live in the United Kingdom in what was supposedly a liberal democracy to wear my kippah – but even if you were take off your kippah, when these people know you’re Jewish, you can’t just switch off your Jewishness. You have a price tag on your head. And that’s the same about antisemitism throughout history: they don’t care if you’re religious, not religious, orthodox, reform, whether you converted even away from Judaism, they have a price tag on your head. That’s what scares me the most in Europe and in my own university campus, which is: even at times when I’ve tried to distance myself they don’t care, they want to come for you just because they know you’re Jewish.
It was mentioned before: of course Israel’s not perfect, no country is, but to side with the side of Hamas, who did that pogrom on October 7th, that’s not utter stupidity but it’s also pure evil. I’ve tried to explain to these people that this is a fight about good against evil. They’re coming for the Jews first, that’s in their charter, but don’t believe they’re stopping there, they’re coming for you next. That’s what people across Europe and across the world need to realize.
Barbara Fleißner: So what do you say about the reactions from politicians all around the world?
Dov Forman: Again, it’s very difficult. I think in the immediate aftermath of October 7th so many of us I think were so impressed with the response of our governments. There was almost a worldwide coming together of governments in support of Israel, but so quickly we saw that breakdown. We saw not only the governments not kind of using their police powers properly when it came to people on October 8th and even on the night of October 7th, especially in the UK, they went outside the Israeli embassy, they went outside synagogues and they had fireworks and they were celebrating, and the government did nothing about that, despite their words. But let me speak about the government now in the UK, the new Labour government, who have just suspended 30 arms export licenses to Israel. I think what that sends, the message again, to Hamas, to Iran and to the axis of evil which is rising in the world, which is Iran, China, Russia and North Korea, the message you send to them as a government and as politicians, when you start to falter in your support for Israel, in its ability to defend its borders and to secure its people, the message you’ve turned to Hamas is that: Take hostages, execute hostages, execute innocent individuals in their beds, on their streets, in their communities, peace loving communities! We’re on your side Hamas! That’s the message which the UK government has just sent to Hamas and to these terror organizations, but also which ordinary people have been sending to them since October 8th by marching on those streets, which is: You do these things, and this is how we’ll react!
But again, I think in the immediate aftermath of October 7th I was incredibly happy and pleased that the response was that should have been the response, but I think very quickly we saw that change. I think that the terror organizations see when governments falter and they capitalize on that.
Barbara Fleißner: Jessica, did the reactions impact your lives personally or the lives of your community?
Jessica Winkelbauer: I think it would be important to say that I live in a country that was really a role model when it came to the reactions after the 7th of October. I have the privilege to feel heard, to feel represented as a Jew, as a young Jewish girl in Vienna and Austria. These words were also followed by actions. I have to point out that we see so much support in the fight against antisemitism and I as an individual feel so supported with my work and the organizations that I can work with and how that makes me makes me feel.
We’ve talked so much about: Is it still possible to turn the tables around? Can we stay here? Should we go, where do we, go can we go there? I don’t know, it’s complicated for me as a 23-year-old, but I can guess for everyone, to ask yourself: Do I have a future here? Do I have a safe future here or do I have a safe future in Israel? But for the moment I feel heard, I feel represented.
Internationally I wouldn’t say that I felt so supported, especially when it comes to the very delayed response of the UN women, when it came to the abuse and the atrocities that happened on the 7th of October. I don’t want to go into detail but it makes a Jewish woman feel very weird, hurt, feel ashamed being represented by these women, and I ask myself: Am I also a victim if I’m Jewish?
Yeah, that was hard to take in, but I’m doing a lot against it, I’m trying to do my part, and I hope that people come, as I said, and approach and help, because this is not a problem from us, this is a problem of the society. I just hope that we can work together as we do and hope for the best.
Barbara Fleißner: Let’s talk about social media because it’s the world’s loudspeaker right now. It could be good because in your case, Dov, you reach millions of people with your story or your great-grandma’s story, but on the other side it’s an anonymous place too and people feel free to write spiteful, hurtful antisemitic views.
So do you agree that the World Wide Web is where one experiences most antisemitism?
Dov Forman: I’ll just quickly go back to the last question, if you don’t mind. There’s a famous quote, which I’m sure you all know, which just came to me as we were speaking, which is, that all it takes for evil to prosper is good men to do nothing. That’s what I think we’ve seen in the west over the last eleven months now, it’s crazy to think that it’s eleven months that we’re standing here in this fight against evil: Good people have stood by again.
Never again!, did not just mean never again would ordinary people, Jewish people be crammed into gas chambers because they were born Jewish, it’s also meant that never again would good ordinary people stand idly by as this persecution, as this hatred was going on. Antisemitism is the oldest form of hatred, it’s a virus that consistently mutates and will never go away. But what can change is the reaction from ordinary people, and that hasn’t changed and clearly people haven’t learned, and if we forget the past then we’re doomed to repeat it, and I fear that we are going to repeat it, because again, that promise of: Never again!, is not being upheld.
Good people, good politicians are doing nothing and are standing by and aren’t using their voice – in the case of the UK because of fear of certain blocks and certain voting blocks and they’re scared that they might not get voted back in. In other countries it might be different reasons, but that’s how I’d finish that answer.
In the case of social media: Everything in life can be used for good or bad, and social media is an example of that. Three years ago during Covid my great-grandmother, who was an Auschwitz survivor, moved in with us. When she was in Auschwitz she promised herself: If I survive, I would tell the world my story! She survived and she began for years telling her story, in schools, universities places of faith, places of work, and then Covid hit and she wasn’t able to do that, and I began asking her questions. Then I realized: Wow, her answers are incredible! I’ve heard things which she never told me before, why don’t I start recording this and putting it online. And within a few days, I started on Twitter, tens of thousands of people had found it and we managed to find in a miracle the liberator of my great-grandmother. We then started on Tiktok and our first video had 400,000 views and we now have over a billion views on Tiktok and Instagram, sharing her story.
Yes, we receive tens of thousands of positive comments a day, but every single morning I wake up to at least 5,000 antisemitic messages – the most disgusting comments, especially since October 7th, that anyone should have to wake up to; like: Hitler missed one! I wish what happened to women on October 7th would happen to your great-grandmother! We know that you live in London, we’re coming to find you! Sick comments even worse than that, which I won’t go into. But for me those antisemitic comments only emphasize the need for Jewish people to use social media in the fight against this hatred, because we know that Tiktok is the place where most young people get their information from, and so the way we need to look at it is this: Either the antisemites, either the Holocaust deniers, either the Holocaust distorters and the October 7 denialists reach these people or we do before them. The only way we can do that is by being on those platforms and by educating. So every time I receive an antisemitic comment I say to myself: Look, my education clearly is not going to help you, I’ve done all I can, but thank you for posting that, because you reminded me this morning why I need to carry on and why I need to do what I do.
There’s a saying that when you listen to a witness – Ellie Wiesel said this – when you listen to a witness you become a witness. Over a billion social media users have become my great-grandmother’s witness on Tiktok and on Instagram, and it’s up to us that we share the stories of the hostages who have been released, that we share the stories of the October 7th survivors, of the Nova survivors, so that people can become their witnesses, and that when they hear this denial, when they hear this antisemitism they say: You’re wrong, and the reason I know you’re wrong is because I’ve heard Lily Ebert’s story or I’ve heard one of the former hostages stories, and this is what they said and this is what they experienced, and this is what can happen when antisemitism goes unchecked.
Because Auschwitz didn’t fall from the sky and October 7th didn’t happen in a vacuum, it didn’t start overnight. There’s just years, decades of indoctrination, and that’s what we need to realize and we can only combat that by being on social media.
Barbara Fleißner: Jessica how do you deal with that, with these hateful messages? I’m sure you receive them too.
Jessica Winkelbauer: I agree with a lot that you said, I agree with the educating, I agree with that we need to be on the platform where the hate is spreading, to counterbalance, but I also have to say – and I felt it with a lot of my friends and family from the Jewish community in Vienna and abroad – that after the 7th a lot of us were starting to answer those comments, and a lot of us were saying: This is not true, I can’t believe that you’re saying that this didn’t happen, how can you? We saw the videos on Tiktok that we’re never going to forget, and no one asked me if I wanted to see them.
I think that a lot of us also felt in this whole of: I have to respond - - My friend or an acquaintance I had from university from London, we talked about Judaism and I was very open about my religion and my beliefs, also about Israel, and she answered on my stories and they were not very, let’s say, helpful comments. I started arguing and I started fighting and defending and there was a certain point where I said: You know what? I don’t need to do this! I don’t need to talk to someone who is a wall and is not going to change their mind. I lost a lot of friends or followers, how you want to call it, but also friends, real acquaintances, because I said: This is not what I want to do, this is not the person I want to fight with! And that’s when it kicked in: You have to choose your fights! You have to choose with whom it is worth to talk about it, who can do something about it. Who can I change but also help making an educated opinion on that matter? I learned this also through Likrat and through talking to policemen who have been standing in front of my synagogue many, many times, not understanding: What are they doing? Why are you going in there and coming out, who are you and why are we not ...?
Answering those questions and educating, talking about 7th, talking about our rituals, talking about our traditions, through social media, through the classes, it makes a difference, and it’s: Choose your battle!
Barbara Fleißner: Dov? Yes, you just wanted to say one thing?
Dov Forman: I would say, and it’s very simple, that Jewish young people, like Jessica, like myself, just want to go back to living our ordinary lives. We just want to be able to live our teenage lives, our twenties, as you all did when you were younger – in university, enjoying it. We don’t want to be on the frontlines, fighting this fight, trust me. It’s difficult, every single day, to continue to wake up, to continue to do it. We’re not in politics, we’re just ordinary young Jewish people. There are people much younger than us who, every single day, have to wake up, turn on their phones and see these disgusting things on social media.
It’s really up to all of you, all of the parliamentarians: You can either go home from this conference and continue as usual, but the norm is clearly not working. So again: We don’t want to be in that position, you have to continue to take that mantle and to do more, because whatever’s being done at the moment is not working, and ultimately: The way that you can do that is to try and hold the social media companies to account more, because they can flick a button which turns this off, which says that that antisemitism is not allowed.
I’ve had that discussion with Tiktok. I know they can do it, but they don’t want to because they care more about the money in their pockets.
Barbara Fleißner: Dov, Jessica, thank you so much for being here! Thank you for your words, your messages and being out there! Thank you so much!
Ladies and gentlemen, it’s now time to connect, to communicate, to bond. You will have the time now. There’s also food of course, in the columned hall out there. We have two kinds of catering for you one, is going to be served and the other is kosher and self-service. There is also an exhibition in the columned hall on the end of the hall called: "Coming Home Soon”. There you will see 100 books with the stories of the hostages from the 7th of October. You can write into the books, messages for the families, messages of hope.
But before you leave the room, we have two more songs we will hear from Roman Grinberg Klezmer Swing Quartet. The first one is called: "Kol Haolam Kulo”, it’s a song about the world being a narrow bridge but you shall not be afraid, and the other is: "Say Shalom!” A prayer for peace on earth. In Judaism you pray three times a day.
Enjoy the music, enjoy the evening and thank you for being here! (A piece of music follows.)